More robust vacuum picking for components

mrandt
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:56 am
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by mrandt »

Spikee wrote:mrandt mentioned in another topic that he uses this and it works fine.
Yep, I guess I have the 12V TZ712/P12-15040 for air / gas (!!!). Ordered the wrong one first, which was for liquids only...

The pump creates a strong vacuum (-60 kPa) at high flow rates.

Make sure to get a 12V power supply that supplies enough current - pump easily draws 3 amps. Also, you may want to put the pump into a sound insulated box because it is noisy.

I have added a 1liter reservoir tank before solenoid - which smoothes the flow of air. Think of it as a "capacitor" ;-)
Spikee
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:49 am

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by Spikee »

Does that need to be metal or is a normal coca cola bottle strong enough ?
mrandt
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:56 am
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by mrandt »

Spikee wrote:Does that need to be metal or is a normal coca cola bottle strong enough ?
I think plastic bottles might collapse under vacuum.

I used a metal bottle - similar to the swissmade bottles by "Sigg".

These happen to have a R3/4" thread for the cap - so you can easily fit a reduction piece to whatever coupling you need.
WayOutWest
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:18 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by WayOutWest »

mrandt wrote:
Spikee wrote:Does that need to be metal or is a normal coca cola bottle strong enough ?
I think plastic bottles might collapse under vacuum.

I used a metal bottle - similar to the swissmade bottles by "Sigg".

These happen to have a R3/4" thread for the cap - so you can easily fit a reduction piece to whatever coupling you need.
Big +1 to Malte's bottle idea here, I finally got around to adding one to my setup and it makes a big difference in pickup reliability with fine-tip needles. More importantly thought it makes a huge difference in the accuracy of the pressure sensor ADC. Without the bottle the ADC is not super useful because the sensor is so accurate and the instantaneous pressure in the line fluctuates by an enormous amount over the course of the motor cycle. With the bottle installed I can actually see the pressure smoothly build up (takes about 10 seconds to fully charge). I'll post a graph at some point. Without the bottle you have to manually average several ADC samples to get something even remotely usable (and I've already got a huge capacitor installed on the ADC line).

If you've got a pressure sensor, you really need to add a metal bottle.

Unfortunately I bought the cheapest one on Amazon, which I definitely don't recommend. The cap is some funny oddball thread pitch (neither metric nor imperial), made of cheap plastic, and it broke. So get the SIgg one that Malte recommends, especially if it means you can use ordinary plumbing parts to make the t-connector.
- Adam
mrandt
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:56 am
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by mrandt »

Hey Adam,

thanks. Glad to hear this helped.

The original Sigg bottles have a 3/4" imperial thread - the cap usually has a conical thread.

I used the following parts to connect:

- 3/4" rubber seal - washer style (either from original cap or standard part)

- reduction piece outer 3/4" conical to inner 1/4" cylindrical
reduction_piece.png
reduction_piece.png (51.67 KiB) Viewed 8940 times
- 1/4" O-ring

- T-adapter 1/4" cylindrical with two 6mm press-in tube connectors
t-adapter.png
t-adapter.png (46.63 KiB) Viewed 8940 times
Here is a picture of my setup:
reduction_piece.png
reduction_piece.png (51.67 KiB) Viewed 8940 times
Best regards
Malte
Attachments
mrandt_liteplacer_airsystem.jpg
mrandt_liteplacer_airsystem.jpg (90.47 KiB) Viewed 8940 times
WayOutWest
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:18 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by WayOutWest »

Spikee wrote: For a stronger vacuum pump i was looking at:
I just installed a new vacuum pump which I believe is the same thing ($15 including two-day shipping in the US: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DYA21PU).

It is REALLY powerful. At least four times as strong as the liteplacer's default vacuum, as measured by the pressure sensor ADC at the pickup head. Highly recommended.

However:

a) it is also INCREDIBLY loud and vibrates a LOT. I had to cut a hole in the wall of my office and mount it *outdoors*. But it was worth the work.

b) It also draws a lot of current, over 1 amp during startup, since it's a 12V motor and not a 24V motor. Runs at 680mA once it's spun up. Do not use the TinyG's 12V output for this.

c) the hose-barbs are not 6mm, so you need to fiddle with adapters

The Amazon comments indicate that you can increase the vacuum another 50% by putting two of them in series so the pump that creates the pickup-tip vacuum is "exausting against less than full atmospheric pressure". However this trick produces diminishing returns; a third vacuum in series won't give much additional benefit.
41l32GeEznL._SX385_.jpg
41l32GeEznL._SX385_.jpg (16.33 KiB) Viewed 8933 times
Last edited by WayOutWest on Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Adam
WayOutWest
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:18 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by WayOutWest »

Very professional-looking, as usual :)
mrandt wrote:
reduction_piece.png
Malte
Curious, what's the "pressure" bottle for?

Is this so that when the pickup solenoid cuts off the vacuum, it (or some other secondary solenoid) also cuts in a slight positive pressure?

I considered doing this a while back to get better dropoff reliability on super-tiny parts, but abandoned the effort after reading that Brian Dorey had tried it (he calls it a "puffer") and reported unsatisfying results. If he can't make it work, I definitely can't.
- Adam
mrandt
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:56 am
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by mrandt »

WayOutWest wrote:Curious, what's the "pressure" bottle for?

Is this so that when the pickup solenoid cuts off the vacuum, it (or some other secondary solenoid) also cuts in a slight positive pressure?
Adam, you are exactly right:

I have connected the tube from the pickup nozzle to two solenoid valves via a T-piece.

Of these two separate solenoid valves, one connects to negative and one to positive pressure reservoir.

A small electronic circuit switches those solenoids with configurable timing.

Whenever a components is placed, I let a small "puff" of compressed air into the tube so the component is released immediately.

By doing this, I more or less elminiated the pneumatic "capacitance" of the long tube running to the nozzle.

The same circuit also controls the pump in such a way that the pressure in the reservoirs is almost constant - within a small hysteresis window.

In practice, it works quite well :-)

But to be honest: It was much effort for little gain. If I build the pneumatic system again, I would limit myself to the vacuum reservoir only. I would keep a controller for the pump though to have almost constant negative pressure - makes things more reliable.

Instead of positive pressure, I would mount a threeway solenoid to the head just like in Juha's original design. I believe with a bit of dwell time that should work almost as good and the impact on overall placement speed should be negligible.

I originally thought that having positive pressure might also come in handy for paste dispensing or pneumatic actuators, e.g. to activiate ratchet feeders. I am not sure I will use it for these purposes though as stencils are much better and any actuator could also work electrically.

By the way: Having a pressure sensor like Reza suggested directly connected to the nozzle is also very beneficial - this could not only be used to verify component pickup but also to dynamically adjust dwell time (if pressure in tube equals outside pressure, nozzle can safely be removed from part).
WayOutWest
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:18 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by WayOutWest »

mrandt wrote: The same circuit also controls the pump in such a way that the pressure in the reservoirs is almost constant - within a small hysteresis window.
...
But to be honest: It was much effort for little gain. If I build the pneumatic system again, I would limit myself to the vacuum reservoir only. I would keep a controller for the pump though to have almost constant negative pressure - makes things more reliable.
What technique do you use (or recommend) for accomplishing this?

My new outdoor-mounted pump delivers more vacuum than I will ever need, to the point where if the needle tip grabs soft leaded solder it will actually gouge a ring into it (and get it stuck to the needle). So I clearly need a digitally-controlled mechanism to reduce the vacuum pressure. But it doesn't need to change the pressure very quickly.

The options seem to be:
(a) slow down the vacuum pump
(b) cut off the vacuum bottle from the pump according to a PWM signal
(c) vent the vacuum bottle to the atmosphere according to a PWM signal
(d) some sort of special purpose pneumatic device, the name of which I do not know
(e) none of the above

Any advice on which one I should try first?
mrandt wrote: By the way: Having a pressure sensor like Reza suggested directly connected to the nozzle is also very beneficial - this could not only be used to verify component pickup but also to dynamically adjust dwell time (if pressure in tube equals outside pressure, nozzle can safely be removed from part).
Definitely. In practice, at least for the jobs I've been doing, if the part hasn't dropped within one host-to-tinyg-back-to-host round trip time, it's stuck to the needle and isn't going to drop off. So it'd have to be implemented on the TinyG AVR to be beneficial.
- Adam
mrandt
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:56 am
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: More robust vacuum picking for components

Post by mrandt »

This is - more or less - what I do.:
WayOutWest wrote: (b) cut off the vacuum bottle from the pump according to a PWM signal
I have a pressure sensor connected to the vacuum system (near the reservoir bottle) via another T-piece.

Vacuum bottle is connected to the pump via a 2/3 solenoid valve. If solenoid is active, pump has connection to vacuum reservoir. If inactive, pump is connected to outside air (via a filter) and path to / from vacuum bottle is shut.

My pump is switched on and off by a solid state relais.

Both pump and solenoid are controlled by a microcontroller using following simple algorithm:

- measure (negative) pressure
- if above desired pressure + hysteresis (-> not enough vacuum), activate pump and actuate solenoid valve
- if below desired pressure - hysteresis, deactiviate solenoid and pump

Both desired pressure and hysteresis threshold are configurable and I found the optimal settings for my machine by experiment.

In essence this is very basic two-point regulation but works resonably well.

I had also thought about PWM controlling DC pump motor but found that the torque was not sufficient at lower power setting and RPM.
Post Reply