Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

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pete0
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:00 pm

Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by pete0 »

After upgrading the machine with the nozzle upgrade kit we tested the new nozzles to verify the improvements. Wobble is nearly gone, only the smallest nozzle shows clearly visible wobble. We placed a couple of 0805, 0603 parts on a board, compared to the needles accuracy is really better. Nozzles were changed manually since the nozzle holder was not installed yet.

After installing the nozzle changer and setting it up in the software we started to do a test placement session to test the placement using automated nozzle change. One big problem was, that it was not possible to find proper filter setting for nozzle calibration. With only two different filter sets but six nozzles this is really hard. But that's an other story!

After setting up the Tapes and job data we started to place the parts. But already with the first part 0603 0.1uF we run into a problem. The part was picked (nozzle N045) up and placed on the board, but after vacuum off and moving up the nozzle to our surprise the part was not on the board but still on the nozzle! :o :shock:

Even moving to pick up the next part did not cause the part to fall off. We tried this with a couple of parts e.g 0805 10uF, SOT23-5, also we switched to N08 nozzle, but always the same result. Cleaning the nozzles did not change anything.

The only reason we can imaging is that the nozzles were magnetized by the magnets in the nozzle changer. Since many SMD parts are magnetic and the weight of the parts goes to nearly zero, magnetic nozzles are not really good.

Ok, one could argue that with solder paste the parts may stick on the board, but for setting up a new board we need to test the placement without solder paste.

Should we think about a nozzle changer which uses some spring mechanism instead of magnets ?
mrandt
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:56 am
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by mrandt »

Hey Pete,

from my experience, there are three possible causes:

1. Pressure levels not fully equalized in tubing; I actually modified the pneumatics on my machine to create overpressure at the nozzle - like a little "puff" of air to release the part

2. Nozzles sticky from oil or other stuff; apparently you ruled that out

3. Magnetized nozzle as you describe

Usually, the force is not very strong in either case while the adhesion on solder paste actually is. So most of the times, the paste solves the problems.

What I do when setting up a new board:

I use wide, clear packaging tape, place that upside down (so the sticky side is facing upwards) on top of the PCB, fold around the edges and secure with another piece of tape. The stickiness of the tape somewhat mimics that of the solder paste.

I believe, Juha used this techniques in one of his videos on YouTube. Other people use spray-on glue or hairspray on test boards to similar effect.

That being said, I agree that a purely mechanical solution to hold nozzles in place might be a good idea to avoid magnetizing the nozzle.

However, this is easier said than done - Juha for sure tried that. You need to ensure that the nozzle is in the exact same spot in the holder each and every time you want to auto-change it, otherwise you might break something ;-) The magnets do a nice job of "pulling" it into place. With a purely mechanical solution, I think we would need a special spring or a milled part with a small ramp which slides nozzle into place... Maybe you have a brilliant idea on this?

Best regards
Malte
JuKu
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Re: Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by JuKu »

For testing, I use spray-on "post-it" type glue. And yes, I tried mechanical springs to hold nozzles in place when not in use. Not much success there.
instrukcion14
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by instrukcion14 »

hey guys.

I also have the same problem as pete0. Component is picked properly but after vaccum off component still stay on nozzle. I tried everything like guys post on their posts but without ani good results.

i'm thinking about tiggering fall time of switching vacuum motor or solenoid and after that for a short time (10ms) reverse polarity of source. It make little "puff" and i believe that component stay on board.

can i ask you for your suggestion?
or rebulid whole air system on my p&p?
or make some tool for nozzle demagnetization?
JuKu
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Re: Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by JuKu »

Are you using paste or just a dry run?
instrukcion14
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by instrukcion14 »

with paste work fairly good. from time to time have this problem. most of C and R are good but problem is with ICs and EL CAPs.
I'm sure that it can be caused by magnetism or antistatic or sth like that.
do you know some manner how to demagentize nozzles?
instrukcion14
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Magnetic Nozzle changer, is this a bad idea ?

Post by instrukcion14 »

from begining when i didn't use you nozzle changer tool it works better i think.
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